![]() June 14, 2005Perspective on GuantanamoA year ago, I spoke with a friend of our family, Luther Smith about his experiences in World War II. Luther was a proud member of the Tuskegee Airmen, the all-black fighter regiment. He was captured by Germans in Yugoslavia in 1944 after his plane became crippled on a strafing mission. To this day, Luther walks with a permanent limp from the broken hip his suffered in that accident (For more on Luther Smith, who is a truly amazing man, read the whole article from the link). Luther brought up an interesting truism about war and rules that transcend the paper that politicians write on: ways that one engages an honorable enemy, versus a dishonorable one. Late in the war, Luther's 332nd Fighter Group were escourting their bombers when German fighers would try and intercept them. The Luftwaffe had been utterly decimated by the Allies and their talent pool dwindled to pilots who could barely keep the plane in the air, much less successfully engage superior pilots flying one of the most lethal figher planes of the day. Luther and his fellow pilots recognized that if they got behind their German prey without shooting, the German pilot would often times bail out of the aircraft, thus ending the dogfight. Luther said (paraphrase), "as long as they jumped, we didn't shoot." They knew that the German was only following orders and would no longer be a threat once he bailed out. Luther even mentioned that at times they would get close enough to see the faces of the German pilots to notice that some of them were no older than 15 - 16 years old! The truism works as such: in battle there are unwritten rules that soldiers engage in based on their views of the enemy. In Luther's case, the enemy gives up the fight, the attacker relents and let the man live knowing that he was no longer a threat to him and the overall war effort. Conversely, if German pilots pretended to "surrender" only to shoot once the Allied pilot disengaged, Allied pilots would cease to allow the Germans to "escape" through this option; they would immediately shoot them down. Compare Luther's example with a pilot, or a marine, in the Pacific fighting the Japanese who would fight by any means to the death. Steven Den Beste described this in his post on the Prisoner's Dilemna: There's been a lot of analysis of this, and it turns out that honesty isn't the best policy. One guy decided to run a computer tournament; people were permitted to create algorithms in a synthetic language which would have the ability to keep track of previous exchanges and make a decision on each new exchange whether to be honest or to cheat. He challenged them to see who could come up with the one which did the best in a long series of matches against various opponents. It turned out that the best anyone could find, and the best anyone has ever found, was known as "Tit-for-tat". He then delivers this thought experiment and puts it into context with true meaning of the Geneva Convention: Now let's analyze two different and even more simplistic approaches; we'll call them "saint" and "sinner". The saint plays fair every single round, irrespective of what the other guy does. The sinner always cheats. Today's fight against Islamic Radicals is precisely of this nature. They are using sinner tactics in hopes that we'll be forced to the high ground to protect our saint-hood. However, does engaging in sinner tactics make one a sinner? If it is clear that we are only willing to use sinner tactics against those that insist on "cheating" in battle and not against other "saints," then the answer is "no." In the history of warfare, there has rarely been a more undignified and dishonorable enemy than the Islamic fundamentalists and despotic fascists we fight today. When they attack, they mainly attack civilians--men, women and children. When they defend against attacks, they hide in hospitals, mosques and schools wearing clothes that won't distinguish them from other civilians. Coalition soldiers cannot tell "insurgent" from "civilian" as they are rounding up those who have the potential to kill. Now, some of these captured insurgents wind up in Guantanamo. On the battlefield, it is understandable that soldiers err on the side of caution, but should our government be setting up official policies that sanction "sinner" tactics? I say yes. The Islamofascists must know that the United States will not allow them to successfully engage us through the use of "sinner" tactics. They pin their hopes on being granted the same consideration as American citizens in hopes that they can cause enough reasonable doubt to walk free. Conviction in court is much harder than simply being caught hanging out with a bunch of Talibanis. A guilty man who walks free means one that has a high probability of attempting another attack that, mostly likely, will be aimed at civilians. Are we willing to take this risk? There are those that are worried that the adoption of these tactics is a slippery slope that will lead to America losing it's soul. Kind of like the theory of pot being the "gateway drug"; one that is more harmful to the potential it unlocks versus its actual danger. I agree that the debate should be held about how we should conduct ourselves, however I specifically disagree that in disallowing the Geneva Convention standards to prisoners held in Guantanamo will cause us lose our soul. Quite the contrary; I think it preserves it. The Geneva Convention was designed to acknowledge the standards that all parties must demonstrate in armed conflict if they are to be applicable. Also, on a practical level, if we were to close Guantanamo and allow these men POW status, we would lose valuable intellegence gained from interregation (banned under the Geneva Conventions). Remember, these radicals are not plotting attacks against the United States military, they are planning attacks against civilians. Those calling for the close of Guantanamo must acknowledge that they are willing to give up intellegence gained through interrogation in order to act "in the spirit of human rights." We will be forced to use less reliable and more specious methods to gather intellegence and this gap will cause us to be more vulnerable to attack. Are we willing to accept an increased risk of another 9-11 to "play by the rules" that our enemies refuse to even acknowledge, much less play by? So, I don't know what types of methods are being used in Guantanamo, nor do I care. I hope they are ringing every piece of intellegence they can out of them, while also sending a message to their faithful back at home that we are not going to allow them to continue to use their dubious and dishonorable tactics without paying for it. Posted by 10 fingers 6 strings at June 14, 2005 06:00 PM | TrackBackComments
I haven't read this post yet, but already I wonder, where do you find the time? Posted by: Rick at June 14, 2005 08:21 PMIt's amazing how much time one has when they don't watch TV. Not that TV is bad, but this post only took me about 1/2 hour. I'm sure the quality is reflect therein... Any thoughts on the torture issue? Posted by: TF6S at June 15, 2005 09:49 AMYes I have thoughts on the torture issue. It is a word that should not even be put in the same sentence as the camp at Guantanamo Bay. I heard comments today from Sen. Durbin last night on the Senate floor comparing what is going on there to Gulags, Nazi Concentration camps, and Pol Pot. Give me a friggin break. There is no sort of torture going on, though I wish there were. We play Cristina Aguilera music as "torture" which on certain levels it is, but in the sense of state sponsored torture of prisoners it is not. Or is it? No, it's not. I'm sure of that. But these islamic pieces of crap who are pretty much just hell bent on killing any and all Americans are being treated much better than they deserve. They have AC for crying out loud. And in Iraq our soldiers are suffering through 130 degree temps in full body armor to catch them and put them in what is the Hilton in comparison with Auschwitz. It makes me sick. I don't understand why these...well, I do understand, because the Democrats want to do anything possible to hurt Bush and make him look bad...but they are doing it at the cost of our men and women in uniform...and that makes me sick. There are not a few politician's I would love to see given a room at Getmo. The friggin MSM is controlled by libs and so there is this spin to make Guantanamo Bay look like some sort of torture camp...and it's ridiculous. And of course there is no mention of the fact these bastards would slice off the head of any American...and do it on a camera to broadcast to the world...and we give them AC and "Genie in a Bottle". Torture my a$#! Your post puts things in the proper perspective. Because they don't treat others humanely, terrorists have forfeited their right to be treated humanely. The issue is whether torture is effective. People in pain will say what they think their captors want them to say. So torture can be dysfunctional. And torture shouldn't result in death. That's want they want. There's 72 virgins waiting for them. Posted by: Marc Schulman at July 13, 2005 08:33 PMPost a comment
![]() |
Search
Blogroll
Ace of Spades HQ
AllahPundit Andúnië American Digest Beautiful Atrocities The Belgravia Dispatch The Belmont Club Captain's Quarters the dissident frogman Tim Blair EURSOC from the still InstaPundit LILEKS (James) :: the Bleat little green footballs The Mudville Gazette protein wisdom Right Side of the Rainbow Roger L. Simon A Small Victory Michael J. Totten Transterrestrial Musings USS Clueless Vodkapundit Winds of Change
Archives
November 2007
October 2007 September 2007 August 2007 July 2007 June 2007 May 2007 April 2007 March 2007 February 2007 January 2007 December 2006 November 2006 October 2006 September 2006 August 2006 July 2006 June 2006 May 2006 April 2006 March 2006 February 2006 January 2006 December 2005 November 2005 October 2005 September 2005 August 2005 July 2005 June 2005 May 2005 April 2005 March 2005 February 2005 January 2005 December 2004 November 2004 October 2004
Recent Entries
Continous Wonder Ramping Up
It Has Begun Thank You Spray Continuous Wonder Jack Army Back From Iraq Introducing Freddy Update on the New Site Stuff
|